Lucy Blake's Weblog


Sex Industry Forums… what a fucking disaster for sex workers!
June 11, 2011, 4:28 pm
Filed under: Uncategorized

So I spent some time reading ALL the sex industry forums this week. One thing struck me…

They’re all completely INSANE!

People seem to be trying to have (serious?) discussions about morality and fairness re: sex industry forums. Hell there are now 2 forums set up as watchdogs to keep the bastards honest (was that a quote from that movie dealing with Leichardt Council Rats in the Ranks or was that a Labour or Democrats election slogan?) and they are about the most corrupt unfair forums of them all. Fairness and morality in the sex industry…..

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

I am constantly stunned how men on forums are so outraged that their rights blah blah blah are being impinged upon.

Try being a worker on forums especially these days where it is dictated to us:

– you are a guest here, we tolerate you, always remember sex industry forums are for punters by punters and therefore you exist as long as it pleases us for you to exist

– if we may or may not charge extras (and no we may not)

– how much we may charge and if we have the right to charge is debated

– threads are begun re: under what circumstances we must give refunds to clients just to make sure a bad review is pushed home to us and we feel the necessary pain if a review deemed us unworthy and our attempt to make it up to the client fell short in their opinion.

– the color of our bagina’s is described in great detail in reviews, but people forget our height, the color of our eyes and our names

– there are threads on how to get laid for free on adult dating sites on a site sex workers are paying to advertise on

– there are threads on how much do sex workers earn and do we have the right to earn that much considering there is no Uni Degree in hooking. Why pay someone more than $18 an hour if they don’t have a degree logic?

– our PMs and posts are taken across forums without our permission, twisted and used against us. If we try and defend ourselves or another worker, we have a new areshole kindly kicked open for us.

– what is fair compensation for a “bad booking” as defined by the client

….. I could go on and on and on and on and on and on.

From a workers perspective and someone who tries very hard to actively participate on forums and be a community member I can say BOOHOOOO and give me a break! This is the sex industry darling not primary school where teachers attempt to make it nice and fair and morally just to teach all the little girls and boys how to grow up into nice men and woman. We’ve grown, we’ve made our choice, and we’ve developed our communities, now it’s time to live with it or be brave and change it.

When you look at forums of the past and forums of today and you compare the differences they are vast. I think about where did it all go wrong? How did it all get away from outrageous fun to threats, intimidation and blatant abuse?

I’ve spoken to numerous workers over the last month who’ve discussed their dislike of the current options but say “what else is there? We have no other choice there all as bad as each other.” I agree. The real question is, are you prepared to sit with this lack of choice forever?

The forums turned and changed when punters got together and made the decision forums were going to be for punters by punters. They got on the rooftops and shouted it to everyone who came within ear shot.

The guys formed private forums within larger forums with workers only allowed to exist on the peripheries.

Most forums ONLY have male Mods who are not sex workers and if there are female Mods, they are treated as tokenistic at best.

Basically we are contained, we are denied access to information, sex workers have no space to organize within hidden forums like punters do, and we have no authority or decision making ability.

Under these conditions it is no wonder sex workers and the sex working community online has dissolved into a disempowered nasty shit fight where sex workers exhibit the fact they need to fight for existence and to stay relative each day. Unfortunately from what I’ve seen, this is usually done by sex workers fighting with other sex workers. This is ideal manufactured behavior to keep the non ruling elite in their boxes. If we’re busy fighting with each other, we won’t have time to organize as sex workers together to change the current horrid status quo and let’s face facts…. it is REALLY entertaining for certain people to watch.

If you want to rip any community apart, if you want to disempower what do you do?

You form a cool group or ruling class and give them all the perceived and real power. Conditioning from the time we are born tells us we want to be a part of the cool group or ruling class – aka hidden punter only forums

You make the Cool Group selective with the rule being you must conform, think like us, be like us, have our values, be vocal and demonstrate these values to gain entry – aka create little clone drones to repeat and enforce rhetoric and dictate norms. Once you’ve created enough of these people you have a powerful loud force.

Remove any existing structures in place that support the community that is not a part of the ruling class – aka take away all workers only forums and if they are allowed to exist, make sure one of the officers from the Interior Ministry of Information (ruling class) is Modding it ie. Setting the rules, selecting who has access etc.

Take the rights from anyone not in the Cool Group/Ruling Class and make sure you shout it from the roof tops over and over again. If you’re told one thing often enough, you tend to own it and be oppressed by it.

When they rebel, shut down any subversives by taking away their ability to speak – put them on Moderation, ban them, humiliate them, start threads on forums that allow and encourage people to point out how the subversive’s behavior was inappropriate and publicly cane them for it and encourage as many people as possible to give the subversive one strike of the cane.

When the lower class is disjointed, disenfranchised and desperate, move in and make “friends”. This allows you to gain information and emotional leverage over people to be used as a weapon if they decide to turn subversive and step out of line.

Make new community norms and expected behavior – eg. If you wanna be part of the cool crew, have access and potential protection from the cool crew, come to drinks night and show us your hooker wears FOR FREE! Anyone charging over $250 an hour must do BBBJs or you’re being a rip off and we will shred you for it. You must answer an email or text within 20 seconds of me sending it or I have the right to turn on you for it and publicly teach you a lesson. If I must send more than one text because of your sloppy inability to return mine in a timely manner, I’ll punish you forever. You will not have anything intelligent to say or question Ruling Class norms and decisions and if you do, you will be expelled from the community, moderated or your words will be taken as evidence to be used against you on other forums.

I could go on and on and on and ooooooooon.

So what do people living in an unjust, unfair and unsafe society do to wrestle back their power and some semblance of control over their lives? What do people in the workplace, other countries or any other community do to regain equity?

How about we just start with….. IDENTIFY AND ACCEPT THERE IS A PROBLEM!

It is NOT ok we are fighting with each other – all we achieve by fighting with each other is entertainment for the masses and the further splintering of our community.

Believe in and accept your self worth – you do NOT have to go to lunch with punters for free. You do NOT have to have drinks with punters for free. You do NOT need to respond to text messages and speak to punters for free every single day on the phone. If you need to, read your rates page and if you have a rate on it for “dinner bookings”, “plutonic date” etc, ask yourself why are you seeing a punter for free? Have they ever booked you? Will they ever book you? Do they actually punt? Do they make you pay for your own coffee? If the answer to the first 3 questions is NO and the last yes… WTF are you doing?!

Accept punters are NOT your friends they are your client base and it is only going to lead to tears treating them as your friends. It’s unfair on both the sex worker and the punter to maintain the illusion of bestie bestie friends friendship. It is dangerous to disclose information to people in this industry so just think about what it will potentially mean if you treat someone as a friend who is a part of the ruling elite when it all goes sideways.

Be aware of motives and what the real cost of decisions are. For every action in life there is a purpose. Try looking at the big picture and all the ins and outs not just what’s in front of your face.

Educate yourself – read everything you possibly can using every resource available to you.

Organise, come together – join NAUWU, join Scarlet Alliance, join Vixen, join SIN, join whoever or whatever your local sex worker org is and get on their e-list so you have other empowered, educated and informed sex workers to talk to every day. You will always have their support, you will never feel alone.  If Holly gets her forum up go join or you can join DangerZone, SAAFE or other sex worker forums right now. Do not sit on the peripheries of a forum you’re allowed on as a tokenistic member at best, go somewhere where you DO matter.

When people try and rip you apart, don’t rise to the bait – I’ve been watching a few forums for a while and they exist purely because sex workers give them the ammunition to exist. If someone slags you, who gives a shit?! They bait you to play with you. Someone who is baiting you or slagging you is never going to book you and is making you look like an arse turning anyone else from booking you. Why do you feel the need to respond to them and how far will it really get you? When sex workers aren’t in trouble, there is no action on these forums and they either die or turn on other forums and each other.  You don’t need to justify yourself or your existence. You don’t need to apologise for yourself. You are NEVER going to win once you’re targeted because it’s not in their best interests to allow you to win and they DO hold all the power AND grudges/

If a punter “friend” threatens you, says something inappropriate and nasty on a forum, baits you etc, don’t feel the need to contact him and tell him he’s a piece of pooh or try and explain how hurt you are and why it isn’t fair. If a “friend” is prepared to act like a douche in the first place, do you think they give a shit?! It simply means you’ve offended them in some way and they are demonstrating their control in the relationship and that they have the power to punish. Either that or a prime opportunity has arisen for your “friend” to use info gathered on you to further their name amongst their peers.

Empower yourself…. Want to know what true empowerment feels like? Attend SlutWalks and make some noise. Feel it in your skin, your bones, hear it in your ears. Why are concerts so good? Because you’ve been with other like mined head bangers; you’ve bounced off each other’s energy which has heightened your own; you buy a T-shirt of the band and wear it to declare you belong and what you’re there for. You scream your lungs out while you identify with the words to the music.You go because it makes you feel AWESOME! Go to SlutWalk for exactly the same experience and MORE.

YOU DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO EXIST AND YOU DO HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO DICTATE THE TERMS OF YOUR SERVICE AND HOW OTHERS SHOULD TREAT YOU!

Peace to all sex workers and I hope you find your bliss… I certainly hope we rediscover and re-energise our community and ourselves!

Lucy

ps. I understand this is a public blog and some people are going to want to shred me for it, take content off it and use it elsewhere. I don’t give a shit, nor will I enter into justifying myself or other sex workers in any other forum.

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30 Comments so far
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My reply to your MHG detractors has been as follows:

Re: An Industry Rant

I’m not going to argue about high end prices, the aging process, or the golden pussy syndrome…

I also won’t even try to explain how Lucy’s blog was lamenting the lack of WL unity. Women are each others’ worst enemy, a point I’ve been arguing for years…

HOWEVER, I disagree regarding client/WL friendship, though. I surely would have crashed & burned man times, if it weren’t for the wholehearted support of my freakin AWESOME inner circle, several of whom are clients who have patronized my services for years.

What I will say is that Lucy Blake is: funny, smart, courageous, weird, bold, sassy, erotic, petulant, pedantic, spoilt and utterly endearing in the way that only true titian lovers can appreciate.

Lucy Blake is unique. 

Lucy Blake is not a dud, nor is she failing to deliver on the high shelf promise. I KNOW the are shitty people (men & women) who work in this industry. Lord knows, I’ve ended up on their wrong end of their stick a few times, myself.

However, Lucy isn’t one of them. I have an overseas clientele, a few of whom speak of her like a goddess. Knowing how hard to please at least one of these guys is, I now hold her in virtual awe…

If you don’t agree with what she has to say, say so. But please… let’s stick to the facts. 

Report to moderator   192.148.117.99
Roxanne Wilde
0405 456 505
foxxxyroxxxy.com

Comment by Roxanne Wilde

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Having survived more than my fair share of forum skirmishes over the years, I’ve finally come to the following conclusion:

Befriend all. Trust none.

Comment by Roxanne Wilde

Message board/ review boards have been the detriment of providers since their inception. They have evolved into virtual locker rooms where the power shifted from the ones provided the much needed and valuable service to the people who for their own personal reasons resent that they are seeking out personal time with a paid provider.

I know many providers here in the USA who do not participate in message boards or allow reviews and they do quite well. I know others who work the review boards like no ones business and do quite well. Me I’m in the middle, i don’t like them but use them then when i can to my advantage and sadly they have also been used to my disadvantage just for the many reasons you detailed in your posting.

The backlash i have felt and dealt with because i have spoken out about many of the issues you outline has been in some cases almost been to much to deal with and have put me in very real emotional and in some cases physical danger.

However here in the USA i have seen a major decline in the whole message board culture. Sites still exist and some flourish but many have closed down for known and unknown reasons, some declined to very inactive, some don’t seem to hold the same impact thy used to or factor into your ability to work as much. What is much more important these days in getting work is where and how you advertise. Which in my opinion is how it should be.

Clients should wash their balls, pay the rate, have a good time, then go home and be nice to their wives. Those that spend time on websites denigrating and trying to control someone else’s lives because they are resentful and angry, have morphed what was once the grain of a good idea (how to do know a provider is legit) into something very ugly and i believe completely unnecessary.

Jenny DeMilo
http:www.jennydemilo.com

Comment by Jenny DeMilo

That was the most intelligent, sensible post I believe I have ever read on this topic. Thank you! 🙂

Comment by Roxanne Wilde

Well thanks for clarifying Lucy, if I ever need peer support I won’t be coming to you because it’ll appear in a blog.

Comment by Megan

Hi Megan,

I’m sorry you feel that way.

Best of luck with work and life,

Lucy

Comment by Lucy Blake

Hi Lucy

Although I am largely naive of these Sex Industry forums, I am on more familiar ground when it comes to Human Nature (the metaphysical driving forces behind our actions and not the Boy Band.)

In any new space, there are always competing interests attempting to fill the vacuum with their noise, opinions and prejudices. People whose sole objective is to Seek power by banding together with the like minded, dominating the unresolved and subjugating the contrary have , sadly, found a happy playground on the ‘net.

On the ‘net, as in life, I am inclined to only interact with people and in places where this type of behaviour is not acceptable.
I keep returning to your Blog because rarely have I seen such a generous display of humour, compassion and honesty. When combined with your unbending determination never to be subjugated You certainly send a powerful message that there is a better way. And that’s a message that we simply can’t hear often enough.

Here’s hoping that yoou have a great day!

PJ

Comment by PJ

OMG PJ!

That was so amazing

Thank you and your thoughts mean a lot to me 🙂

Lucy

Comment by Lucy Blake

I think you raised some excellent points, but I think you could have exercised some discretion with some details which aren’t even about your experiences IMHO

I think swop or whatever needs to write up a safety/ business guide on how to survive forums for working ladies. I’ve spoken to curvy Vanessa about this before.

You talk about forums I’ve never heard of before – where’s the community in keeping the other ladies informed :s you can’t rant at the girls for not knowing something exists when it doesn’t even show up in google

I’d like to know about AXXXR because in my view it’s a pussy cat compared to other forums. I’ve never been threatened with banning, Or put on mod preview for writing my own thoughts as a working lady. In fact they stand as the most working lady friendly review site I’ve come across in Australia.

Comment by Megan

Hi Megan,

Thanks for taking the time to comment.

Re: the discretion issue, how do you know most of the issues I discussed aren’t my experience? I’ve been online and on the forums for over 5 years so I’ve experienced A LOT. Also if I read it, I see a sex worker being picked on, I empathise and it becomes my experience. I have also spoken to sex workers who some of these points “may” have been about and they have thanked me for the blog and had no issue with what I wrote. I also take calls from workers at 3am who are crying and very upset on the phone re: the issues I’ve outlined and more. I didn’t make anything up that I wrote. Myself and MANY MANY other sex workers do a lot of peer support and peer education and are lucky enough to have the same offered to us. I see this blog as an extension of that.

If I see a worker being treated unfairly on a forum, if I know something is written about a sex worker I will say something.

SWOP NSW couldn’t organise a root in a brothel enough said.

Megan I’m not sure what you mean by this paragraph:

“You talk about forums I’ve never heard of before – where’s the community in keeping the other ladies informed :s you can’t rant at the girls for not knowing something exists when it doesn’t even show up in google”

I intentionally did not name any forums – if you’re referring to NAUWU, SIN, Vixen etc, they are all sex worker groups/organisations not forums and as I stated in my post, they all have e-lists you can join. NAUWU does have a website as does SIN and they do appear when you Google. People are also more than welcome to contact me for their details and they have done so. I did not place their precise info on my blog because they are sex worker business and more than sex workers read my blog. It is OK to name them, but I would not give more info than that on a public blog.

I’ve also posted info re: NAUWU on my blog and forums, so people already have a fair bit of exposure to them. NAUWU also has banners on most of the forums (except AB because it is illegal to have links on a QLD site unless they are links/banners that dissuade people from prostitution).

I’m really delighted your experience on AUXXX has been so positive. I will not be commenting on my experience as Mark has asked me not to and as stated in my blog, I think it’s NOT ok to post emails, post re: private discussions etc. I have had extensive conversations with the AUXXX Team as I have with all forums I have come in contact with when I have an issue.

I’m not someone who bitches, names and shames publicly and I know it is down to me to try and address any issue I may have with any forum I’m on – it’s the adult and professional thing to do so the content of this blog will not come as a HUGE surprise I dare say unless people haven’t been paying attention to feedback from myself, other workers, punters or even if they haven’t been watching the trends on the forums.

Anyway, happy hooking, thanks for your comment and again I’m so happy for you that you’re living the dream on AUXXX. Oh you could even start your own blog to tell everyone how great they are! Now that would be a useful resource for sex workers – peer info and support. A beautiful thing 🙂 I’ll be sure to come comment on your blog as well! Blog writers LOVE comments 🙂

Lucy

Comment by Lucy Blake

Hey Lucy,
Good on you! I have looked at several of the online forums and have chosen not to participate in any of these sites. I dislike the tone of many of these forums, many of the punters revealing an inappropriate amount of personal information about the WL’s they have seen and judging them in an harsh and disrespectful manner. How would clients like to be reviewed in the same manner for all to see?
I have also been dismayed to see the cattiness and bickering back and forth between some WL’s not doing any service to themselves or any other workers in in industry.
I only choose to participate in online groups that encourage a positive and educational environment and leave these ugly forums to others.
I would much rather spend my energy looking after the wonderful client base I have, doing advocacy work, educational community work around sex work and working with amazing sex workers trying to improve our working lives in general.
I wish more workers would spend more of their vital mental energy and precious time on positive activities rather than squabbling online with dickheads that are not deserving of their attention. They do not deserve your energy!
There are many sex worker organizations out there that need worker support, they are fighting for our rights to work, to work legally and safely without discrimination. Workers do not take the legal status you have in your state for granted, if we do not fight to improve and retain our rights they can easily be taken away (see Marrickville councils recent activities).

Comment by Cassie Bayside

WOW Cassie – thank you VERY much for your comment.

I would much rather spend my energy looking after the wonderful client base I have, doing advocacy work, educational community work around sex work and working with amazing sex workers trying to improve our working lives in general.
I wish more workers would spend more of their vital mental energy and precious time on positive activities rather than squabbling online with dickheads that are not deserving of their attention. They do not deserve your energy!
There are many sex worker organizations out there that need worker support, they are fighting for our rights to work, to work legally and safely without discrimination. Workers do not take the legal status you have in your state for granted, if we do not fight to improve and retain our rights they can easily be taken away (see Marrickville councils recent activities).

Hallelujah!

Again, thank you for your comment. The messages in it are sorely needed.

Lucy
🙂

ps. sometimes I wish this was a hooker only blog. Would be cool chatting with you I think! lol

Comment by Lucy Blake

Well Lucy, no-one could accuse you of not being courageous. I used to be on forums, SDU, FIA and PP but I’ve given them up. I realised after a while that the only thing I found useful on them was the travel info. I’m capable of exploring my own backyard. Then there was the negative of being on a forum, all the crap and nastiness that you have accurately pointed out. There is a huge amount of toxic sludge on those forums and the scope for blackmailing WLs is huge. All power to you Lucy, I hope this means only sane, respectful men will book you.

Comment by David

Thanks so much for taking the time to write David. You always talk to me on my blog so I don’t have to feel lonely. I like that.

It means a lot to me to get some gents commenting on this issue. You’re in the peer group with a lot of the guys on the forums, so having you write here means some of them may read it and think twice. The warning to WL about the scope for blackmailing is also so important.

My boys are lovely … well the ones who bring donuts or cupcakes from http://www.babycakes.com.au are anyway 😉 The others still need to learn how to be respectful lol.

Night night David,
Lucy
🙂

Comment by Lucy Blake

I had an interesting chat with a psychologist client the other day actually Lucy.

We came to the conclusion that review forums aren’t about reviews or consumer protection at all. The forums are a place where they can develop egos much larger than their their own reality.

Peoples obsession with Internet “fame” and personas is quite an interesting topic really.

Comment by Gloria

MW said “…your review must be this long and contain these details …”
Well, maybe, some of the guys do get carried away with themselves. But, I posted a “review” on PP a few months ago – 115 words total, 26 words (1.3 lines) for the action, no mention of girl-bits, currently 446 views – and no objections. Maybe it’s a confidence thing, but really it’s a matter of telling some people (not just the guys) to pull their heads in, and ignore the others.

Comment by Comet

yeh, what the fug, as least we can find out what the issue was…

“Yes Lucy, let’s go there and let’s do it on your public blog”.

Comment by mark

on second thoughts, and having slept on it, let’s not.

I am interested though, so perhaps you could email me what the issues are/were

Comment by mark

I love you Lucyxxxxxxxxxxx.

A brave but perfect summation of how toxic forums have become. You know you are going to cop an absolute flogging from the usual suspects, all power to you girl. Stay strong.

There is nothing on earth more sexy than a woman who intelligently stands up for herself and other women. Your blog is a great example.

I had a little crush on you, now I have a massive one.

Adamxxxxxxxxx

Comment by Adam

I know I shouldn’t respond, but will anyway. This is not an official reply, but a personal one.

I am a little hurt at the site I am part of (AuXXXReviews) being included in your comments about ‘all’ the review forums, especially as our records show you haven’t been back to visit us (using your own log-on name) in about 5 months, and take your comment of being ‘someone who tries very hard to actively participate on forums and be a community member ‘ with a pinch of salt, since you have only posted some 20 posts in the past year with us.

I won’t try to answer all you points, apart than to say I can’t see that many apply to us, but believe that our behaviour to date has been as inclusive and open to all in the industry as possible. We have a multi-cultural moderator team with strong links to the industry from both sides of the fence, however it isn’t something we make a big point about.

We do have an area for those in the industry to discuss things, but that haven’t really been utilised, so not sure what else we can do.

As Holly is doing, why not start your own forum up, problem solved.
Ask her, it’s still not a walk in the park, and a lot of outside help is still needed, as you would know from you early days at SDU.

Pffft, bah humbug

Comment by mark

Mark,

Do you REALLY want to open this can of worms with me? I’m quite happy to discuss AUXXX and my experience with your forum if you like.

I would think very carefully before you say “Yes Lucy, let’s go there and let’s do it on your public blog”.

Lucy

ps. thanks for your concern re: not having the technical expertise to set up a forum, but it’s pretty much done exactly the same way as setting up an every day website. I don’t have the time to set up the forum you suggested because I already design and maintain websites for different people/causes in the sex industry.

Your comment on SDU was quite subtle so congrats on that, but I do get the real meaning and point of you writing it. I’ve filed it in the memory banks.

Comment by Lucy Blake

Whoohoo Lucy Rocks!!!

This is why I stick to my guns and only see who I feel suits me, the rest nasty /arrogant ones they go to my blacklist!

Punters don’t realised how much work we put in to please them and have them judging us unrealistically on public forums is just intolerable. And also I do understand the need to share reviews but certain too explicit details should be kept unsaid.

Anyway thank you for posting this blog, see ya in Sydney! mwah!

Xx Spicy

Comment by Spicy Cayenne

Hi Lucy, could not agree more with your comments. Fascinating to put the whole forum behaviour within a broader social and political context. well done

Comment by Peter

Your last sentence is really all that you needed, Lucy.

As for the “watchdog” forum I know of – they can’t even keep themselves honest.

Nice blog, thank you

Comment by Comet

Hi Lucy,
I couldn’t agree more with what you said. Forums these days are too wild and out of control. It is i think too easy for guys to air there feelings on sites like that at the expense of others. You are right that Ladies need to look past what is said about them but i understand how a girl feels the need to defend herself and what she sees as an attack on her ability to make money. Which i guess is way some feel the need to write negative things about girls.
Maybe with what is going on overseas with the football star and twitter we may see stronger laws about peoples rights and privacy issues online. If a lady could sue a peron over untrue statements then it would make guys think before they type.

Comment by legaldude

Hi Lucy, As always another great blog,I agree totaly with manwhore. Sometimes I ask myself ‘how is Lucy going’,there will always be a soft spot there for one young Lucy

Comment by Colin

I remember when forums used to be fun. Sure there were a few crazy people around back then too but overall they were a fun place to be. Things are way too serious these days when it comes to the forums. You must fill out this template, your review must be this long and contain these details otherwise it isn’t really a review is it? Lighthearted topics are no longer welcome. Topics from new members are barely tolerated by those who have been around. Some long term members have a belief that new members should know how things work straight away and would rather not guide them. Workers should be seen and not heard. Actually, I’m sure their preference is that they are neither seen nor heard, so the forums can be one big Tool Shed or Lounge or whatever it is that Punter Planet has…. oh that’s right the den. Sometimes I’m a little tempted to give the forum thing a go myself. See if I could start up something more reminiscent of what we had years ago. But then I come to my senses.

Great blog Lucy, Thankyou for posting it 🙂

Comment by manwhore

Marry me. Have my babies. This is why I don’t play in other peoples sandboxes anymore.

Comment by Luscious Lani




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